Game Journalism reports (via WSJ Online) that Viacom has paid 160$ million for the Neopets website and 20 million subscribersThis is significant money, e.gwhen compared with many MMORPGs. 

I've never played there, but I empathize with RichM's remark:

Being a "hands-on" Dad, I got familiar with the site and soon became addicted to DestructoMatch, giving me first-hand experience in why Neopets is one of the Internet's stickiest web sites - and why Viacom would pay $160 million for it

When is a "sticky website" a virtual world, if ever? Are there gradients of casual dress that becomes our worlds and imagination, and are these gradients loosely suggested by this other raging retrospective? I suspect that the difference here comes down to one's view of embodiment, the avatar-as-self, and the distinction between game worlds and social worldsThey looked friendly enough--at least, no one had fruit ready to throw at usIt was simply kind of surreal, after reading the comments on TN this past week and hearing other things at the conference about the problems with game studies and developer/academic relations

After our "high energy" presentation, the questions were even strangerSomeone asked why humanities research got left out, and we had to say that we couldn't find it to be directly relevant on our top 10 list of bulleted pointsIan made the point, and I agreed, that doing the research for this panel made us think differently about academic researchWhile I'm not going to say that what we've done personally has no value, it was a definite challenge to try and make it *directly relevant* in a BULLETED POINT for developersAnd there are huge gaps in what we don't knowWhere is the research about sports games, to take just one example? Anyway, the point is, I enjoyed the exercise, and learned a lot from itI hope the audience did as well

But overall, I like to think that the attendance demonstrates that developers are interested in what academics might be able to tell them (again I will point out: no fruit was thrown)And all week, I talked with developers who were interested in what was going on with research, from the smallest to the largest companiesMaybe the issue is the "larger" communityIt's always easy to abstract and oversimplify at that levelBut I know that on an individual level, there are real conversations and collaborations going onI don't want this to turn into some rosy "it's better than we think" or "can't we all just get along" thing, but I do think that perhaps the situation is not as dire as it's hyped to beBut then again, I haven't gotte my evals back yet

Or [shudder] perhaps it's Ye Olde Narratology-Ludology Punch-and-Judy showBut an divergence of views by smart people is always good, since value is often (always?) found in the interstices, not in the received wisdom

Instead, I am coming to believe that game designers and developers, on the whole (some of the august exceptions being right here on TN), are simply not able to see beyond their own way of thinking about MMOGsI am not chalking it up simply to arrogance (although there is some of that too, especially from some bright lights who clearly have enough going on upstairs to know better)I'm actually suggesting that they are (largely) incapable of thinking outside the box (to use a well-overworn phrase)This should not be seen, however, as some devastating slam on them  -- all people, in all places (though I would suggest particularly those enculturated into heavily technical professions) have trouble looking at things from another point of view, and this group is really not so differentBut it was still a bit surprising, especially given, in Eric's and Raph's cases, their stated interest in academic research.

Here is what I wrote on the backchannel a month ago when the topic was the related issue of developers and their attitude toward the content contributions of their player-base:

But the designer arrogance goes deeper than that, I'd sayThis kind of elitist characterization [of users as lacking in skill] itself rests on a rather narrow conception of what "content" isWhat do you want to know? Buy SWG Credits from usA flying mount costs nearly 1k Warhammer GoldYou could feel surprised that our Star Wars Galaxies Credits price is the cheapest on all the servers, especially on US server! Here is just one quick example of this kind of disposition in action: Billmonk, which Constance posted about hereThe site promises to help you keep track of your obligations throughout your social network precisely (using any of a number of imaginable currencies)It is double-entry bookeeping for your friendships, and thereby prompts you to conceive of these obligations in exact termsThis is a perfect example of a code-based solution to a code-defined problem: People's moral obligations are essentially precise and monetary, and they therefore need a precise tool to manage them(And this approach is not just applied externally; within software companies one frequently sees similar efforts to address organizational issues with precise and enumerated systems that can be, above all, measured.) Heather Kelly, one of the developers on a panel on Monday asked a great question about game development that she hoped researchers could help answer: Why does money trump everything? The answer lies in the remarkably good 'fit' between the market and code, and in the existence of a lot of well-trained people who can find ways to exploit it

I submit for your comments the idea that the reason many developers have a hard time finding anything of value not only from researchers, but often from their own players, is that they are, in effect, seeing a different world, all the timeAn optimistic disposition -- a faith, even -- in technology and code-based problem solving runs deep in the technology and software development community (see, for example, Gary Lee Downey's ethnography of CAD/CAM engineering, The Machine in Me), and it hampers developers' ability to recognize the range of content and community creation (very broadly defined) by users as well as the fruits of the well-established but different methodologies and concepts of researchers

I don't flirt, or try to produce any sexual vibes..I *do* tend to refer to myself using feminine terms (ie: "I'm your girl" instead of "I'm your boy" when agreeing to help someone)." Is a world what you call it - regardless of how you and it relate to each otherOr do universal metrics apply? Richard Bartle: the virtual world is not part of the real world because if it were then there would be no point in visiting it

Hiro Pendragon: THat's like saying "We are alive because if we weren't alive, it would be pointless"

Richard Bartle: Hiro P that seems reasonable to me at least, no more point than visiting any real-world place

Hiro Pendragon: That's begging the question, RichardYou can't say something exists because of its effects.